About this Episode
In this episode of the Agency Profit Podcast, Marcel is joined by Stephen Neville, CEO of BugHerd, to unpack the fantasy many agency owners entertain: trading their service-based business model for the greener grass of software. Drawing from Stephen’s journey from running a digital agency to scaling a SaaS product, they explore the often-overlooked complexities of the transition—from the challenges of saying no to feature requests, to the harsh financial realities of customer acquisition and technical debt. Marcel and Stephen shed light on why services are more flexible (and forgiving), why product-market fit is best found through doing things manually first, and how the most successful SaaS-leaning agencies start by productizing what they already do. Whether you’re software-curious or scaling a service firm and wondering what’s next, this episode offers a candid, experience-backed roadmap for navigating the leap (or not) from services to SaaS.
Watch this Episode
Points of Interest
- 0:00 – 1:05 – Introduction: Marcel introduces Stephen Neville, CEO of BugHerd, highlighting his background in agency work and his transition into running a SaaS company that helps agencies streamline QA and client feedback.
- 2:24 – 3:10 – The Dream of SaaS: Marcel and Stephen discuss the allure many agency owners feel toward building a product, inspired by success stories like 37signals—often without fully grasping the implications.
- 5:30 – 7:10 – Major Model Differences: Stephen outlines key contrasts between service and product businesses, including delayed ROI in SaaS, the shift from clients to customers, and the challenge of proving value before seeing returns.
- 8:02 – 9:09 – Saying No at Scale: Product businesses require frequent, disciplined “no’s” to user feedback—unlike services, where agencies are more likely to say yes. This shift is critical to managing scope and long-term product health.
- 10:14 – 11:02 – Why Agencies Want to Pivot: Common motives include stabilizing revenue, creating proof of expertise, and giving teams opportunities for skill development—though not all transitions are strategically sound.
- 13:19 – 14:04 – Common SaaS Misconceptions: Marcel highlights flawed assumptions—such as SaaS needing less human capital or being less client-facing—debunking the idea that software removes the need for people.
- 16:20 – 17:01 – SaaS Risk Profile: The risk and financial exposure of building SaaS is often underestimated, with founders needing to endure potentially years of losses before seeing profitability.
- 21:15 – 22:53 – Lessons to Apply in Services: Stephen emphasizes adopting the SaaS discipline of qualifying and deflecting misaligned client requests, to protect team capacity and maintain healthy utilization.
- 24:01 – 24:59 – Productization Without Code: Agencies can create repeatable, value-rich offerings by productizing existing services—without building software—through structured, process-driven deliverables.
- 28:29 – 30:20 – The Real MVP Framework: Marcel shares his “Three Ps” framework—Problem, Point of View, and Process—as the true foundation for product development, arguing services are the best way to validate solutions.
- 33:01 – 34:46 – Services as a SaaS Growth Lever: Stephen explains how services improve acquisition, onboarding, and retention—especially for enterprise clients—making them a strategic tool, not a liability.
- 35:46 – 37:25 – Monetizing Services in SaaS: The conversation closes on the growing trend of SaaS companies charging for implementation and support, reframing these formerly free functions as value-rich offerings worth paying for.
Show Notes
- Connect with Stephen via LinkedIn
- Website – Bugherd.com
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